Tribe.net. Local Connections banzai http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#21cb4ee3-0df8-4cf4-8846-81652c542b8c 2007-09-28T18:03:06Z 2007-09-28T18:03:06Z

<He didn't. Lives were not endangered, safety no more so than by uncounted other happenings on the Playa, including the official Burning Man brand burning of the man. (thus the famous phrase on the ticket "You voluntarily assume risk..). "> Oh Bernie, are you kidding me? He "didn't" endanger lives? I left the man shortly before it went up, i saw the people crashed out. Could Addis had gone up to a few and say, "hey, you might want to leave". No, he didn't. I am not saying he wanted anyone hurt or had any intention, other than burning the man. The fact is he DID endanger other people. The fact the Burnngman Ticket says "you asume risk...." doesn't give you Carte Blanche to do whatever you want to do. Of course several injuries occered. You have a city of 44,000 people. You are going to have injuries. Does that make the rational that if people are going to get hurt anyway, i should do what i want and not worry about the safety of others... I really find it hard to believe you would think that Bernie. Would love to hear your thoughts on this... Much Love, banzai

banzai 2007-09-28T18:03:06Z Reecy http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0218e269-42d7-4dfa-a0c9-4e15db3b2d88 2007-09-25T23:45:06Z 2007-09-25T23:45:06Z

Yes.

Reecy 2007-09-25T23:45:06Z Jar http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#01493c4c-dad4-47f1-a989-531081521a76 2007-09-25T23:37:26Z 2007-09-25T23:37:26Z

ooops! Sorry Reecy......I forgot to check with you and the Dead Thread Police first before I went and posted something on an old thread. Can you please make a list of all threads you consider dead and that way I can steer clear of commenting on them lest I offend your oh-so-bold-and-rebellious preciousness?

Jar 2007-09-25T23:37:26Z Reecy http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#55c40f61-8569-4a7e-bc55-54c55aed87f6 2007-09-24T23:11:19Z 2007-09-24T23:11:19Z

>>My answer to that was: "Well, so is murder." << DIE, THREAD, DIE!!!!

Reecy 2007-09-24T23:11:19Z Jar http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#d66cc78a-b7dd-47c0-a502-4baae3d43761 2007-09-24T22:49:50Z 2007-09-24T22:49:50Z

Some people find freedom through love, compassion and caring and some find it through chaos, anarchy and not giving a shit about anything. Paul Addis showed us who is who this year. Everywhere I went people with a passion for BM had a different take on it. In my case, it bummed me right out. I thought the act was a monstrously lame, pitifully pathetic wheeze of one little man's ego. However one of my best friends of many years thought it was funny, saying: "Well, that's Burning Man. It's radical self-expression right?" My answer to that was: "Well, so is murder." Some people have delusions of grandeur that enables them to feel justified in attempting to separate others from their emotional attachments. Well, okay then, I appreciate your concern for my well-being you wiseguys, but isn't it up to me to decide what I care about and what I do not? These people are apparently unaware that they are nothing but pseudo-anarcho-fascists who would create BM (and everything else) in their own image, in the name of "enlightenment". (Paul called his action "an act of love"). 2006 was my first year so I don't know what BM used to be. Some people lament that the spirit of Burning Man is dead, it isn't what it used to be, it's too this or too that now. If Paul Addis represents what it used to be then I'm glad that BM is "dead", I'm glad that Paul Addis is banned and I'm hoping that people who agree with him find the event not worth attending.

Jar 2007-09-24T22:49:50Z Bernie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#d6e9f784-8540-4af2-a94f-883cbbbad1d3 2007-09-16T02:29:05Z 2007-09-16T02:29:05Z

> My problem with Addis burning the Man is the fact he had no regard for the people inside, .. It was just luck that nobody got hurt or burned > If you are going to make a "radical expression", it should not be at the cost of endangering other peoples lives. He didn't. Lives were not endangered, safety no more so than by uncounted other happenings on the Playa, including the official Burning Man brand burning of the man. (thus the famous phrase on the ticket "You voluntarily assume risk..). Several injuries and incidents resulted from this years burn, alone. The premature burn may well have the best safety record of any ever. just luck? I don't buy it. Freaked about a lack of uniformed officials? there weren't any at the first half-dozen burns, either - unless you count the one who kicked Larry and Jerry off the beach for burning the Man without a permit or crowd control (the last crowd -half random beach-goers- estimated at 800). If Paul Addis deserves jail time for burning unsafely, then so do Larry Harvey and Jerry James and Kevin Evans and John Law and Michael Mikel (the five founders) ..as does the reigning Queen of Hypocrisy, Crimson "I want that man arrested" Rose.

Bernie 2007-09-16T02:29:05Z Bernie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#2ae82d06-1c33-4791-99d5-5cb811aadd71 2007-09-16T02:21:49Z 2007-09-16T02:21:49Z

>.. attempted manslaughter of several human beings .. OMG! you're so right! we can't let the arsonists win! they hate our freedom! The Decider has declared the War on Arson. we may all be asked to give up a few of our liberties and look the other way while we detain a few undesirables and commies in a back room and "take the first shot". but its all for your protection!

Bernie 2007-09-16T02:21:49Z SaintOn http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#f1fe0ef9-3fe9-4e14-91db-d8d272881d9b 2007-09-15T02:31:08Z 2007-09-15T02:31:08Z

it is sad that somehow in an atmosphere of acceptance someone felt that they couldn't go on. we are all lessened by his passing.

SaintOn 2007-09-15T02:31:08Z Saynt http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#4988192e-f07c-40fe-b1ad-84ceb2a334d6 2007-09-14T21:36:58Z 2007-09-14T21:36:58Z

Huge flames! Great Success!

Saynt 2007-09-14T21:36:58Z Ranger http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#24eb5fa8-4baa-4489-be23-5f84e3f5e9de 2007-09-14T15:54:23Z 2007-09-14T15:54:23Z

If the man is a corporate symbol- how would you suggest people go about throwing / organizing / protecting the residents of Burning Man without a corporation? How does one handle that much money (and distribute it to artists and pay REMSA and rent equipment and land and purchase ungodly amounts of insurance and radios and port-o-johns and the like) if there isn't a corporate structure? If throwing burning man and herding the cats that are the people who help run / set up burning man is a year long, full time job- would you expect someone to do this out of the utter and complete goodness of their heart? It really pisses me off when people say "Burning Man has gone corporate" and poo poo the whole thing. It's not a bunch of goddamn hippies and technologists getting high on Baker Beach any more man. You HAVE to have this kind of organization to make it happen. The ONLY reason Burning Man happens at all is because of people working hard and being so organized it makes my head spin. The only reason more people don't simply DIE out in the desert is because it's organized such that you have medical and other support facilities available. The only reason you see some of the really really spiffy art out on the playa is that BMORG *gives* out money to artists to make their vision happen. It really frustrates me to see people bad mouth the organization but enjoy the product. If you really despise it so much, go be a part of it and change it from within. They are always looking for volunteers or people with the kinds of skills that would bring value to the organization. If you really don't like it- organize a regional burn. Become part of Dark Skies / Singularity or Fuente Eterno or Soak or Flipside. See what wrangling the needs and concerns and infrastructure for 500 people is like and figure out a way to make it so that they are the way you want them to be. Maybe you need to make a private event where only the people you think should be there actually attend (no "frat boys"). Do what you want. But complaining that the man is a corporate symbol (the only reason it isn't being ripped off and used by non-burners to sell crap is because it's viciously protected) when it *has* to be is ridiculous.

Ranger 2007-09-14T15:54:23Z Bernie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#910c4267-e384-4887-b76e-ffe97ef90957 2007-09-08T21:24:21Z 2007-09-08T21:24:21Z

> I wish Sacha Baron Cohen would make a film about this. you're soaking in it. Paul Addis *is* Burning Man's own private Borat. long overdue. its burnytime!

Bernie 2007-09-08T21:24:21Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#447107cf-934c-407e-9ac5-3c1b774d2ea3 2007-09-08T17:09:05Z 2007-09-08T17:09:05Z

I wish Sacha Baron Cohen would make a film about this.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-08T17:09:05Z MdJGutie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#21dd57da-474d-410b-bca9-8f6a38d8b124 2007-09-08T13:43:45Z 2007-09-08T13:43:45Z

“1) Yes everyone talked about it but it's another thing when someone goes and does it. It'll be the same when someone puts a bullet in GW's head. can you say massive exageration?? comparing the symbolic damaging of a corporate symbol to killing a human being is not winning you points in the logic department there, Turdbird! (sp)” Can you say there were people in the plaza when this happened? Comparing the attempted manslaughter of several human beings to the symbolic damaging of a corporate symbol is not winning you points in the logic department there, imbecile.

MdJGutie 2007-09-08T13:43:45Z Bill http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#fe2a6f33-2f31-4459-b68e-dd6a81dd3de6 2007-09-08T09:38:56Z 2007-09-08T09:38:56Z

>Paul Addis = drunken frat boy!! thats the opposite of what was said..

Bill 2007-09-08T09:38:56Z Bill http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#192c2a72-a051-4beb-bbaf-0cd88d03f331 2007-09-08T09:35:55Z 2007-09-08T09:35:55Z

> I think it would be oh so fair to let angry man have a private sitting with those folks for a serious ass kickin. oh, come on, Lisa, you know they got laid!

Bill 2007-09-08T09:35:55Z Bill http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#6e9f8fde-daeb-4a4e-9ccf-6c21c3cd936e 2007-09-08T09:34:30Z 2007-09-08T09:34:30Z

1) Yes everyone talked about it but it's another thing when someone goes and does it. It'll be the same when someone puts a bullet in GW's head. can you say massive exageration?? comparing the symbolic damaging of a corporate symbol to killing a human being is not winning you points in the logic department there, Turdbird! (sp)

Bill 2007-09-08T09:34:30Z Reecy http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#e497ab4b-a892-4fd5-9abb-e7aa15d8eb79 2007-09-08T01:24:31Z 2007-09-08T01:24:31Z

Paul Addis = drunken frat boy!! LOL!

Reecy 2007-09-08T01:24:31Z Maltese http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#899b7a44-9962-4443-af48-081fc7223653 2007-09-07T23:16:02Z 2007-09-07T23:16:02Z

Yeeeesh....Good point, Jonathan. Each year, someone is killed at the event. Sure wouldn't want to have it said in my obit that I died because of some poser-Hunter S. Thompson- wanna-be who killed me and possibly several other people while trying to prove a tired point. I hope to die much more spectacularly...from spontaneous combustion at the height of orgasm in the middle of the half-time orgy of the Spanish men's fencing league.

Maltese 2007-09-07T23:16:02Z quel qu'un http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#16f9d421-ec62-4041-9f7d-5d2ac35c0315 2007-09-07T22:16:35Z 2007-09-07T22:16:35Z

I do not condone endangering others, but it is done. Now, we evaluate why and what it means. Good thing no one was harmed. If we discount it's significance, even if Paul Addis never intended it, we miss an opportunity to look ourselves square in the face. Why this happened is far more important now than what actually happened. The best case scenario is that discourse is sparked and reflections are made, which is already happening. Something like this was going to happen sooner or later given BM's growing attendance. I'm surprised it wasn't just a drunken fat boy who thought it would be a fun party trick. Even THAT has an important message in it despite the lack of profound intention.

quel qu'un 2007-09-07T22:16:35Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0f818ba8-1ddc-4d62-94ac-f0fb4d3b965d 2007-09-07T22:06:16Z 2007-09-07T22:06:16Z

No! It was LESS TOLERANCE! MORE IGNORANCE!

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T22:06:16Z Ranger http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#84fff56e-dcac-427a-9951-fd00fae01777 2007-09-07T21:30:51Z 2007-09-07T21:30:44Z

There were people in the pavilion when he set the man on fire.

Ranger 2007-09-07T21:30:44Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#98980182-7900-4e4a-bf5b-d5897bf92d34 2007-09-07T20:46:44Z 2007-09-07T20:46:44Z

Sign in and you will be...

Tedward 2007-09-07T20:46:44Z MdJGutie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0ffbead1-acb4-4ecb-babe-9b2c419c64e2 2007-09-07T20:33:19Z 2007-09-07T20:33:19Z

Ah yes. Reminds me of the old PT rallying cry, "MORE DRAMA! LESS RESPONSIBLITLY!"

MdJGutie 2007-09-07T20:33:19Z R I C O http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#2900c53b-3662-40dd-beb5-d6e9d170a0c6 2007-09-07T20:19:42Z 2007-09-07T20:19:42Z

I must admit that i can see virtue in burning the man early in order to keep with the crazy ,anything can happen, spontaneous, anarchic principles of BM and that i got a chuckle out of the fact that someone actually did it, but i was SERIOUSLY concerned with the apparent lack of care for others welfare in doing so. I mean, starting a fire in the middle of thousands of people is quite dangerous and irresponsible--regardless of your motives. to all these super-burners that state radical self expression: cmon...STFU already. If my form of radical self expression was to shit in your pillow or drive around the playa in the dark at 120MPH , or randomly set tents ablaze would you still be preching about freedom? I dont care if your art or self expression is offensive ( after all offesive IS subjective), but the line has to be drawn somewhere--and I draw it at carelessly endangering others. funny thing is: he did this to protest certain BM policies and to try to resurrect some of the old principles as well as thumb his nose at the massive influx of weekenders and his total effect will probably be ironically opposite to the desired result.

R I C O 2007-09-07T20:19:42Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0efed93e-7557-4905-8490-d55c5c522915 2007-09-07T20:13:45Z 2007-09-07T20:13:45Z

Exactly. Just think of it this way: my contribution is me not going and therefore one less person on an already overcrowded overcorporate playa. See? I do it for the greater good. I'm taking one for the team. That said, EVERYTHING i do is for the GREATER GOOD and San Dimas High School Football Rules! :)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T20:13:45Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#4040851e-46ee-40ad-a93f-05b2d7182c9d 2007-09-07T19:47:29Z 2007-09-07T19:47:29Z

Hey yeah, I would love to hear your perspective! Waaaay too much hype and bullshit, if you ask me. Goes back to the topic of this thread in the first place. If I could guarantee you that Burning Man would challenge your belief systems, alter your world view, and change your life forever, then I'd try to persuade you. But that just doesn't happen to very many people any more...and to those it does, it empties their wallets pretty quickly. And besides, some of us need it, some of us don't! Thankful that it's not for everyone...

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T19:47:29Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#80b3db51-2237-4c4b-92ae-cdfacb2d8560 2007-09-07T19:37:13Z 2007-09-07T19:37:13Z

>>Penny starts a thread today though I'll hijack it and tell you all about it. ;) http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/62335e73-656d-41fe-85bd-903c2b78c9a0?newpostingid=137cccde-b534-4461-b6d5-b058693370a3#137cccde-b534-4461-b6d5-b058693370a3

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T19:37:13Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#7ba0d32b-bf7a-4bc6-8333-3d23fd53d703 2007-09-07T19:33:24Z 2007-09-07T19:33:24Z

I fucking LOVE Tedward. However, I already belong to "Boringman Tribe." I should be the moderator of Burningbah. :)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T19:33:24Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#1c74df66-aec6-4709-92e6-fd462c61fc8d 2007-09-07T19:03:26Z 2007-09-07T19:03:26Z

Here ya go, a whole tribe for just this kind of thing.... Post volumes http://tribes.tribe.net/burningbah

Tedward 2007-09-07T19:03:26Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#91d032fb-fe45-4ea9-8e64-a5dac4547ac4 2007-09-07T18:39:28Z 2007-09-07T18:39:28Z

Thanks Viagra. That means a lot. (Suck it Paynie!) Kate's right though. I don't want to go. I may not need to go, and I may deserve to go, but I don't want to for so many reasons. If I had discovered it on my own without years of hype and bullshit, I would probably think it was an awesome experience. However, and we can sit down and have a long discussion about it the next time you're out and about if you want to. I started typing out this big long-winded post here about it and thought better of it because of the topic at hand. Although I am a thread hijacker I don't want to whine about why I don't go to the burn on this thread. If Penny starts a thread today though I'll hijack it and tell you all about it. ;)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T18:39:28Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#c53de3cb-8dde-4936-aa9e-adffa3e8a187 2007-09-07T18:20:59Z 2007-09-07T18:20:59Z

It's not whether Porter wants do go...it's that she deserves to go... Two different things entirely ;-)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T18:20:59Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#998dfc1a-9e44-4503-9568-6ad6885dd77a 2007-09-07T18:16:17Z 2007-09-07T18:16:17Z

Now, now...Paynie is not a self-serving douche. I always thought that he was here to serve all of us ;-P

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-07T18:16:17Z revVrob http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#04b3ce0e-7040-45b2-88d7-23e67743aa6b 2007-09-07T03:52:05Z 2007-09-07T03:52:05Z

the burn on monday during the full moon was amazing.... for something like this to happen in a growing structure with increasing rules and beuracracy, well... all week long whenever anyone asked what I thought (and they asked quite a bit on the "talk to God" phone) I answered that I thought it was "the return of infinite possibilities." Most people seemed to really like that answer. cheers revv

revVrob 2007-09-07T03:52:05Z Maltese http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#13e3979a-05fe-4c4f-a204-33e1d78d8dc3 2007-09-07T01:26:11Z 2007-09-07T01:26:11Z

I think the last thing he said was that he was burning right through it, Jiblet....

Maltese 2007-09-07T01:26:11Z josh http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#3629d15d-2aa1-4901-a2a2-2c7fc559824c 2007-09-07T01:21:27Z 2007-09-07T01:21:27Z

My big problem is the self-promotion that Paul did immediately after his release. I read 2 interviews before the man burned for the 2nd time. Was it about giving the BMORG a kick in the ass? Or about giving his career a kick in the ass? You know he's working on his one-man show right now. If anyone knows paul, have some fun and ask him how is script is coming..

josh 2007-09-07T01:21:27Z Katharine http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#326b8036-1f0f-4c7e-b65c-88fc37bfb7da 2007-09-07T01:05:24Z 2007-09-07T01:05:24Z

Save your ticket. Porter doesnt want to go. Do ya, Porter?

Katharine 2007-09-07T01:05:24Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#a6e849b2-184e-4041-9e95-6eb7b6d12c16 2007-09-06T22:45:48Z 2007-09-06T22:45:48Z

Every once in a blue moon someone comes along that has never been to Burning Man and totally gets it. Porter, that would be you this time around! Damn, now if I can get through January without declaring bankruptcy, you might just be the lucky recipient of Viagra's annual Burning Man gift ticket. Not because you NEED to go, because you DESERVE to go! Then there are those who have been going for many years that think they own the Playa. Oh, hi there, Paynie!

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-06T22:45:48Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#611a9bea-a180-4d15-9272-a0f88ea604fa 2007-09-06T05:51:12Z 2007-09-06T05:51:12Z

For the record, the man was made of dry wood and had no flame retardants (like last year) in it. It went up quick because it was designed to, not from accelerants. All he had was a road flare. The Second man burned slower because it was green wood. Otherwise, I completely agree.

Tedward 2007-09-06T05:51:12Z banzai http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#92eb1014-8141-40f0-b785-f8d6a950f903 2007-09-06T05:38:58Z 2007-09-06T05:38:58Z

HI everyone! I was there when the man burned early. There are a lot of valide points and different perspective. I would love to voice mine. My problem with Addis burning the Man is the fact he had no regard for the people inside, probably about 100 people and some of them had fallen asleep waiting for the eclipse. The Man went up very quick, because of the the accelerant he used, and being under the structure you could not even see the man well from certain locations underneath. If someone would have gotten burned by the melting cover of the shade srtucture as the embers of the man dropped down, then I think most views would have changed. It was just luck that nobody got hurt or burned, but the story could have ended much differently. If you are going to make a "radical expression", it should not be at the cost of endangering other peoples lives. Just my two cents, Much Love and Peace, Banzai

banzai 2007-09-06T05:38:58Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#e2346114-3483-47d9-aaf4-a60e4573172b 2007-09-06T03:26:21Z 2007-09-06T03:26:21Z

I took me weeks to figure out a billboard that said "For serious Playas only" or somesuch.... :P

Tedward 2007-09-06T03:26:21Z Lisa http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#770c5682-e610-4294-b361-a348859caeca 2007-09-06T03:02:59Z 2007-09-06T03:02:59Z

Oh but I will say this though...I feel so very bad for all those artists that devoted so many hours to other playa projects that didn't get built because their resourses got donated to rebuilding the man. That sucked ass. I think it would be oh so fair to let angry man have a private sitting with those folks for a serious ass kickin.

Lisa 2007-09-06T03:02:59Z Lisa http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#e0c0c368-3ccb-483a-ae5f-7f5e9cc3e22a 2007-09-06T02:36:46Z 2007-09-06T02:36:46Z

I thought it was funny as hell AND as my boyfriend said...it's the first time the man was black!!

Lisa 2007-09-06T02:36:46Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#20387506-00d3-40d7-abbf-56ae81a48aec 2007-09-06T00:46:36Z 2007-09-06T00:46:36Z

As a side note, I'll be consuming live salmon during my breaks set at the Mountain Bar on Friday.....did I mention I don't really spin breaks? k. Additionally, I'd like to say that I dedicate my set to Jerm and everyone from Joy and Comfort camp and please know that my heart goes out to you, no matter what Paynie says. Damn the Man. Save the Empire.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-06T00:46:36Z Angel http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#ad8d1300-7c00-4bd1-b6b5-a15823177c54 2007-09-06T00:10:12Z 2007-09-06T00:10:12Z

Thanks, Playah ;)

Angel 2007-09-06T00:10:12Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#9016fc06-9ffa-47c9-a29b-16fe710fadc6 2007-09-05T23:11:42Z 2007-09-05T23:11:42Z

ANGEL Playa - n area of flat, dried-up land, esp. a desert basin from which water evaporates quickly. Playah - A hip-hop slang onomatopoeia used to describe the jargon mispronunciation of "player". See also Playa, Play-ya, and Playuh.

Tedward 2007-09-05T23:11:42Z Angel http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#00da19df-5739-4d9a-a80f-a3958370470d 2007-09-05T22:45:37Z 2007-09-05T22:45:37Z

Oh, and from now on? Just to piss you off. :)

Angel 2007-09-05T22:45:37Z MdJGutie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#cb2aa8c4-688c-4a01-bc20-31e8f262d432 2007-09-05T22:14:14Z 2007-09-05T22:14:14Z

"Yeah Paynie's right, I guess since I didn't go this year, or last year, or the year before that I am not a part of the L.A. underground community that spills into the b-man scene in any way...." Oh damn. Paynie had to poke the bear. Paynie, put the stick down and back away from the Porter.

MdJGutie 2007-09-05T22:14:14Z Angel http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#31c6789f-c67c-459a-aac7-2d5e37774293 2007-09-05T22:09:11Z 2007-09-05T22:09:11Z

Oh give me strength and patience for the elitist please... Listen, doesn't matter if you weren't there. Doesn't matter if you've NEVER been there. If you're here it's obviously a part of your life in some way and hey, it's even interesting to you. The event has a whole SLEW of nibblets for the intellectual in general, from the ethos of it to the historical significance if any. And hey, the others (like me) who have burner blood but never had burner means? Well, we'll take what we can get for now, eh? eh? Participation doesn't stop at the playah, and there are people who've never been that still have a stake in what's to come, and what this means to it (if anything). I doubt you jumped up spontaneously one August and said "Gee, think I'll loose my burning man virginity this year... whatever that is." You had interest ahead of time. Just, you know, to explain it to ya. :)

Angel 2007-09-05T22:09:11Z Danielle http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#eb5e1783-e7dd-42b3-b458-849ae713e9a0 2007-09-05T22:02:50Z 2007-09-05T22:02:50Z

No one has mentioned the art in the pavilion below the man. The fact that the man actually burned early was so surreal and unexpected (even though it is rumored every year) that it DID create a whole different feel to the event (some of it very positive, actually.) The man is intended to burn, so the fact that it burned early didn't particularly traumatize me at all. What I did take issue with was that the people who did NOT intend for their art to be destroyed were not given the choice of whether or not to remove it first. That's why I feel that this was an irresponsible and innapropriate action and does constitute arson.

Danielle 2007-09-05T22:02:50Z Angel http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#324602fe-c11f-4f4b-9539-dc494f9f5bf9 2007-09-05T22:00:22Z 2007-09-05T22:00:22Z

"In the case the Boston Tea Party, taxation without representation is patently wrong. So...it actually made sense for people to react in the way that they did. Comparing the Boston Tea Party (an act of defiance to protest an unfair governmental policy) to some angry person torching an icon (apparently in the spirit of radical self expression) leads to a false conclusion." Burningman = micro-community BMorg = coperate entity which makes policy Addis = (like it or not) representative of that disgruntled micro community. Funny thing is, the Boston Tea Party wasn't exactly a practice in broad benevolence for the people either. Boston Tea Party = National Community ...and so on. It's *not* that different. Alot of comparisons have been thrown around, but I think this is the best one so far.

Angel 2007-09-05T22:00:22Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#bdd4f5a0-f022-4192-a659-d17c1f30a677 2007-09-05T20:09:25Z 2007-09-05T20:09:25Z

Porter, I shortened your post to the bare essence. "Yeah Paynie's right...like a 2 dollar hooker."

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-05T20:09:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#f7f42aeb-5adf-417c-890a-300987b6a2dc 2007-09-05T19:40:40Z 2007-09-05T19:40:40Z

AAAAAAAAAAHAHHHAHA sweet.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-05T19:40:40Z josh http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#cc719d11-c5bb-4475-abfc-9fc83df2e0ef 2007-09-05T19:29:31Z 2007-09-05T19:29:31Z

"the frat kid from Newport Beach who camped next to them screaming "PARTY NAKED DUDE! " while filming naked girls as they rode their bikes past him and chugging Pabst Blue Ribbon with his Anaheim Angels baseball cap turned backwards and doing the manly "bump chest" thing with his friends talking about all the "tits" around them. " Actually, I'm from North Hollywood, and it was a raiders cap. Party naked...lady dude

josh 2007-09-05T19:29:31Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0e59dd9b-6e3e-49cf-bac1-4a893b872c21 2007-09-05T18:56:23Z 2007-09-05T18:51:20Z

Yeah Paynie's right, I guess since I didn't go this year, or last year, or the year before that I am not a part of the L.A. underground community that spills into the b-man scene in any way. It's not like I play or promote fundraisers for people to be able to attend the event, or have to listen to the pounds of steaming bullshit that comes out of some people's mouths every weekend about the burn, their experience, what MY experience should be, and how to live my life and what not to say. I certainly haven't been grabbed by the shoulders and screamed at "OMG YOU'RE NOT GOING?????" and forced to listen to 34 minutes of explanations of why I should go each time someone decides to "learn me." Because I wasn't there, I should not notice or experience the absolute hypocrisy that comes with the particular segment of the b-man scene in the underground and I don't ever have to deal with so many artists spewing so much bullshit but producing so little art. You're right Paynie, I am not involved in the scene in any way and have no business discussing something I found entertaining on this tribe. Friends I have from Tribe and on Tribe who are burners totally do not consider me as much of the local community as the frat kid from Newport Beach who camped next to them screaming "PARTY NAKED DUDE! " while filming naked girls as they rode their bikes past him and chugging Pabst Blue Ribbon with his Anaheim Angels baseball cap turned backwards and doing the manly "bump chest" thing with his friends talking about all the "tits" around them. While entertained at the man burning down early and while a little off center all week about the missing identity of someone who killed themselves at the burn, I guess I should not "bother" to comment on it at all in any way since I wasn't there. We go way back Paynie, and I love you like a two-dollar-hooker, but your question above totally lends to why I was entertained in the first place....it's a real cool club and I'm not a part of it? *raises eyebrows* See you Friday for drinks? ;)

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-05T18:51:20Z Tedward http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#60c8f839-92a4-4426-9ce9-391044e01d9b 2007-09-05T17:39:31Z 2007-09-05T17:39:31Z

Just to weigh in. 1) Yes everyone talked about it but it's another thing when someone goes and does it. It'll be the same when someone puts a bullet in GW's head. 2) If they didn't want us to post on Tribe from the playa, they wouldn't have provided WiFi unlimited access... :) 3) "WE say when the Man burns" - DPW

Tedward 2007-09-05T17:39:31Z Iris http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#c726472f-0b4e-4907-a5be-5ab824b2cacd 2007-09-05T16:34:06Z 2007-09-05T16:31:51Z

It was amusing . . . hell at first I was cheering. The real sucky thing is that DPW who worked so hard for weeks to make the city couldn't relax and party because they had to rebuild the man. Screw the people who paid to get in and didn't arrive until the event started, boo-fucking-who. It wasn't a big sweat to most of us . . . it was a lot of sweat for the people who really make BM come together. Those laminates were pretty awesome though . . .

Iris 2007-09-05T16:31:51Z Sweet http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#2073467f-3d0f-49c2-b6af-c24094cc16de 2007-09-05T05:19:53Z 2007-09-05T05:19:53Z

it was rather surreal at Ranger outpost Berlin, later hearing that Shiho shouted "the man is Burning, all hands on deck!" with most Rangers thinking it was the anual stale joke (at first). I was out moon gazing with 2 other off duty Rangers at the trash fence, and the plume of smoke we glimsed was passed off as some possible art project er suuumthing. (uuu look at the pretty mooon!) It was strange not having the Man there all week, but fresh and exciting at the same time as a new one was constructed, erected and guarded within an inch of its life. Im really proud of how the Rangers on duty caught and subdued the arson guy. Zero drama. Kudos to Rangers OJ, Idiot Box, Trapper and Paragon (and others)! And serious "boo's" to the drunk chick who tried to steal Shihos hello kitty bike after she races to the scene. man o man...

Sweet 2007-09-05T05:19:53Z Katharine http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#d00c58b8-c1cd-4bf1-b8ae-338b3d8795e8 2007-09-05T03:33:17Z 2007-09-05T03:33:17Z

People in Gigsville have been kicking the idea around for a while, but it took a truly dedicated madman to do the deed. This would have been my 6th year. I really regret not going, because I would have LOVED to have been there to see the conflagration. My week wouldnt have been ruined at all. Far from it. I DO feel bad for the people who ended up doing extra labor to build another man, but the people who piss and moan about having their "experience" impacted? Cry me a river and shit me an island. It's Burning Man. Deal with it.

Katharine 2007-09-05T03:33:17Z Sierra http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#e0238d14-5261-418c-93ad-0fee8218da05 2007-09-04T23:49:20Z 2007-09-04T23:49:20Z

* It's not cool to post from the playa. * You’re a cool kid to go to the playa. * It's cool to burn down artwork in the name of self-expression but only if it's not your art and you didn’t help create it or pay for it. * We should care about someone who killed himself but we shouldn't be miffed at the people who thought he was hanging himself in self expression * We shouldn't be angry at the person who selfishly committed suicide and forced others to be a witness to it without any regards to their feelings i.e. Reaction to seeing a dead person in a place that is suppose to be full of good vibes and self expression. Talk about confusing..... I know understand the opinions and viewpoints of the Burning Man evolution. Burning Man is going to be whatever each individual makes it. Personally, I’m here to explore myself, explore new things and meet positive people who share similar beliefs and outlooks. Everyone has a right to his or her opinions and to voice them as well as to have or have not an effigy. People who disagree with anther must understand that they may be voicing an opinion against what anther is passionate about. The one commit I haven’t seen posted is that the Burning Man is a directional reference. People use it as a reference to get back to their own location and find friends. I can’t and don’t want to imagine the discourtesy given to people who are lost or was lost without it. I’ve haven’t been able to go Burning Man due to medical problems but next year will be my first… The discussion threads I’ve seen this year are really discouraging and I’m truly thankful for the friends and acquaintances I currently have that I know I share similar beliefs and viewpoints with and people I know can depend on at Burning Man (if needed).

Sierra 2007-09-04T23:49:20Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#683293f6-31ae-4c02-835a-07462be8611c 2007-09-04T23:44:30Z 2007-09-04T23:44:30Z

>>Why are people who weren't there even bothering to discuss any of this? Come on, Paynie, you are being disingenuous. This is a burner tribe. The torching was impactful news for burners one way or another. And most people responding have been to BRC at one time or another, so have an emotional investment in the topic. Why not discuss it? One had to have gone this year just to express an opinion?

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-04T23:44:30Z josh http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#c3ddd71e-dd96-41ae-b2ef-758f41c37b10 2007-09-04T23:37:48Z 2007-09-04T23:37:48Z

Cause we were home and able to read all the interviews he did immediately after being released. He's a self-serving Douche!

josh 2007-09-04T23:37:48Z Paynie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#eb8f28d2-8ba6-4e66-9a3f-6242fe42c05b 2007-09-04T23:24:19Z 2007-09-04T23:24:19Z

Why are people who weren't there even bothering to discuss any of this?

Paynie 2007-09-04T23:24:19Z Maltese http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#3092d1dd-b876-4ef3-b924-8555e69b1ff7 2007-09-04T20:05:28Z 2007-09-04T20:04:55Z

Well, apparently we now all know the answer to the question, "What would happen if someone burned the Man down early?" Funny - on the Simpsons' crew, the contingent of us who go out there talk about what an episode where the family goes to Burning Man would look like, and always the subject of Homer accidentally burning the Man down early gets introduced. (Other ideas include Lisa and all the interactive art, Bart getting into dangerous places, and Marge desperately trying to vacuum the playa, but that's for another day.) Spoke with the crew who built and re-built the Man on Friday, and Exactly gave me the blow-by-blow. What he described of the next 48 hours - finding all the lumber on site, calling in favors from long-gone crew members from back in the day, the two-day search-and-create mission in Reno for just the right color of neon, barraging and bending the wire, and the frenzy of labor and love that made the completion of the project possible - was inspiring. The kicker really came after the dust-and-rain storm, when two double rainbows appeared over the Man, who now sported a phoenix made from the ashes of the old one on his face. And our Conclave got to perform at the six-o'clock position right in front, so my crew was elated. In all, it was a pretty awesome and powerful illustration of strength of collective character, whether one thinks what the guy did rocked or whether one thinks it sucked, or both. In the end, it happened and we all got a hella good story out of it. And like Larry said, "It's just a pile of sticks. It's not the event. The people make the event."

Maltese 2007-09-04T20:04:55Z Julie http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#a62e68ff-9d80-46d4-a947-b2951d3572cf 2007-09-01T23:50:52Z 2007-09-01T23:50:52Z

Meh. Ya know, both years I was out there, I heard rumours about the man being burned early. I thought it was kind of funny, and hoped it would happen. The burn itself is whoo whoo cool and all, but it's MAYBE an hour out of 169 I was out there both years. My best memories and experiences are not about the actual burn. For such a large group of people who call themselves nonconformists, there sure is a whole lotta conformity, and expectation around one single scheduled event.

Julie 2007-09-01T23:50:52Z quel qu'un http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#51d50be5-0c0d-4840-b210-e76a704fb915 2007-09-01T21:37:06Z 2007-09-01T21:37:06Z

Nothing is sacred to everyone or forever. Don't pigeon-hole me, it doesn't flatter you. I did not insult you personally, and would request the same amount of maturity.

quel qu'un 2007-09-01T21:37:06Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#95c40476-e330-492b-b9fa-fd2ee1cce34b 2007-09-01T21:29:31Z 2007-09-01T21:29:31Z

nothing is sacred, right?

kaiya 2007-09-01T21:29:31Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#28362285-1d8c-4e7e-afce-cacf4036befb 2007-09-01T21:15:51Z 2007-09-01T21:15:51Z

slippery little word, isn't it? :D

kaiya 2007-09-01T21:15:51Z quel qu'un http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#cd05a171-85ee-417a-9dd4-b1dd2f66f36a 2007-09-01T21:09:50Z 2007-09-01T21:09:50Z

I'm going to assume I made a valid point. Your response does not require me to pick you apart. You did that to yourself.

quel qu'un 2007-09-01T21:09:50Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#76c51781-1fc9-4b92-a019-9e5a91fd2a87 2007-09-01T20:50:10Z 2007-09-01T20:41:22Z

Good day, late to the discussion! (Quelquechose) Pleasure to meet you! I make my points as I see fit. Thank you for noticing. But I can put it in simpler terms, if you wish. Follow me: Let's say you are in a movie theatre, the lights have gone down, the previews are over, "the audience is listening," the little film can guy has done his snoopy dance across the screen. The person sitting behind you is still chattering incessantly on her cell phone. The opening credits are complete and the movie is starting. What do you do? I am quite certain -- in all honesty, that most folk would not rely on bullshit hippie logic and pull the "What-world-this-world-be-without-the-rebels" card. As an artist, I think that he could have probably devised a more effective way to rage against the machine. Why torch it in the pre-dawn hours? Why not torch it at 4pm on Saturday when more people are awake? Why be sneaky about it? If you're going to be balls- out about something, half-stepping and pussy-footing is not an option, in my opinion. Or...hey...how about creating a spin-off gathering? I understand that's encouraged. I'm reasonably sure the organizers will take this all in stride. So this is probably all moot, anyhow. I understand your assertion that one potential reason for this action "as a statement for people to divorce themselves from the icon and focus on the true meaning of being there." However, I am going to guess that that's your lovely prose and well-put possible objective. If I had to guess, I would say...well let's put it this way, I'd be pretty surprised and delighted if the perpetrator were as eloquent and intelligent as you. I'm putting him in the "I'm-angry-because-I'm-short-AND-they-didn't-accept-MY-project-funding-proposal" fraternity. I'd be very interested to hear whether or not he has anything intelligent to say. Now that he's gained some measure of notoriety, I'm sure he'll be on Good Morning, America in short order. Maybe with a book deal, or a How-To guide. (No offense to the vertically challenged or to frat boys.) I am quite dramatic. It is what I do. It is one of the ways I do art. You like? In the A & B conversation above, I simply used someone's flawed logic and applied it to a different situation...with flawed results (as expected.) The point was to illuminate the original flaw. Glad you (sort of) got the point. Or it at least got you semi-riled up. Good show. You cannot say that what no longer holds meaning for you is therefore also meaningless to others. Restated: Just because it is your opinion that the "effigy no longer has the meaning it once did other than to let people delude themselves about who they really are..." does not make your opinion a true statement for everyone. Everything I have stated here and wherever else, derives from the inner-machinations of the fantastic brain in my head. and my funny Valentine heart. I think it's pretty clear that at least *I* am not presenting my opinion as fact, though I may be guilty of a blanket statement or ten and perhaps have a distaste for and generally reject "gray-areas" (I'm working on that). I STILL think it's asinine to "shake things up" or make a point by destroying someone else's hard work. If it's your project, then you're free to destroy at will. You might even get participants to help you out. But I don't subscribe to the "right" to infringe upon someone else's effort and/or enjoyment. I have never said anything about disallowing someone the right to freedom of expression, so I'm not sure why you made that assumption. Perhaps you're not an artist yourself or are not well-acquainted with any? I don't think that concept should be that difficult to "get." This is the point that I am making, from the standpoint of an artist and observer. It has less to to with the fact that the thing was torched ahead of schedule and a lot more to do with the motivation behind the action. >>Is BM about an effigy? I don't know. Is it? Will it mean the same things to you as it would to me? >>Do people 'pay' all that money and put out all that effort just to burn an effigy? I don't know. Perhaps. Some people are there because many of the people whom they love the most in the world are there. Some people are there for the amazing art. Other people are there to get hammered and walk around naked. Others are there to see thousands of naked breasts. Depends on who you speak with, I suppose. >>Does this really fuck up someone's life? Not much of a life, I'd say. I don't know. Perhaps. I can't say whether or not something will or will not fuck up someone's life...since I'm living mine and they are living theirs. You'd have to ask 'someone.' As to your "not much of a life" comment...since it's not your life to which you refer, you cannot say with any degree of certainty whether or not it amounts to much. >>People talk about BM as is if it's the only thing that matters in this world I'll have to take your word for that.because I don't have any of those types of people in my circle of love. I cannot comment. >>and THAT is far more destructive than burning an effigy off schedule. ...So talking incessantly about a huge outdoor art festival, that you really love and are really looking forward to and have thrown all kinds of time into preparing for, is destructive? Well...I believe there are a lot of people in this community and in the world at large that don't have a lot to look forward to in their lives. They hate their job and/or their commute; they hate their neighbors; they really wanted to be something else when they grew up, but got stuck being something and someone else...there's not a lot of love in this world. Some people have found love and acceptance in the burning man community. Why would anyone want to take that away because the thrill has gone for them? I understand that some people 'awaken' when they experience burning man; I understand that people's lives change almost always for the better when they experience burning man. If its lustre has gone for you, then change yourself or change your location. Don't re-write everyone else's reality just because you have a thorn in your paw. On that note, I will conclude by saying that I will make no further comments to this topic. I feel doing so will increase the notoriety of the Angry Little Inch, and I do not wish to be a part of that. If you desire my sparkling repartee on this subject feel free to PM me. I'll even meet for coffee. Ta-Ta! Thank you for playing. best to all kaiya PS: In the case the Boston Tea Party, taxation without representation is patently wrong. So...it actually made sense for people to react in the way that they did. Comparing the Boston Tea Party (an act of defiance to protest an unfair governmental policy) to some angry person torching an icon (apparently in the spirit of radical self expression) leads to a false conclusion.

kaiya 2007-09-01T20:41:22Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#0b2ac6ab-bf45-4da7-b170-7630dffc61d3 2007-09-01T19:12:19Z 2007-09-01T19:12:19Z

Werd.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-01T19:12:19Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#73acd791-9d9f-4dd3-902e-4cde4217e51e 2007-09-01T19:09:58Z 2007-09-01T19:09:58Z

Totally agree to disagree :) And I'm not sure it would be like that at all, but I think my head is still spinning from the jaeger last night to really be able to figure out how many stays you've got staying down there.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-01T19:09:58Z quel qu'un http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#e0a9ee62-136f-4af7-8c72-f7f999678cfa 2007-09-01T17:38:21Z 2007-09-01T17:38:21Z

Wow! Melodrama! To even bring up Katrina and the LA Riots to make a point about an icon burning... Is BM about an effigy? Do people 'pay' all that money and put out all that effort just to burn an effigy? Does this really fuck up someone's life? Not much of a life, I'd say. I can see what he did as a statement for people to divorce themselves from the icon and focus on the true meaning of being there. BM can happen without the effigy and it seems that what BM once was is long dead anyway. The effigy no longer has the meaning it once did other than to let people delude themselves about who they really are and what they are really doing with their lives by suspending reality for one week. ...and yes, artists DO have the right to shake things up and disturb the comfort zone, be iconoclasts (breaking, or in this case, burning the icon). What world this world be without the rebels, those willing to throw a Boston Tea Party? We would never wake up to our treachery. Isn't that in the original spirit of BM? Breaking up the status quo? Making a radical statement? Being unorthodox? People talk about BM as is if it's the only thing that matters in this world and THAT is far more destructive than burning an effigy off schedule.

quel qu'un 2007-09-01T17:38:21Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#11c9f09c-d17e-4ce7-accf-eb48454fc83c 2007-09-01T14:41:42Z 2007-09-01T14:39:18Z

Bliss: Out of respect for him and because I don't know either the back-story, the real story or the details, I chose to allow his friends and family to initiate this very important dialog, if they so chose. That way, the rest of us could send out warm, healing energies to him and to those he left behind. I wish him and them warmth, love and gentle calm. Bon voyage to him on this new adventure. At the time of my original post about the angry little inch, there was scant little reliable information about this issue. Since I did not wish to participate in any uninformed, ill-informed, sensationalist "oh what a shame" banter about it, I chose to post on a different, totally unrelated topic of my choice. He only lost his life if this was an accident / experiment gone wrong. Otherwise, he took his own life. There's a difference. If so, it was his life and therefore his choice. Perhaps it was an accomplishment for him. Perhaps his choice provided him with a measure of control over some internal wrestling match. Perhaps ... into infinity. This is all just speculation on my part -- and I am sure you are also just...speculating. Further to the point, I believe it VERY disrespectful to him and to his loved ones to bring him up in a Totally Unrelated Thread as an "also-ran." You are not the first person to do so, but I very deliberately ignored mention of it when the first person brought this up, hoping that it would prevent this issue from becoming a footnote to a Totally Unrelated Thread. I know that were I in his inner-circle, I'd be pissed about it. * I * understand that a frat-boy type prank and an apparent suicide should not share the same thread. You, on the other hand, in response to said apparent suicide "do not understand how more important is the early combustion of the man is to a life that saw no point of living...." Let me clarify things a bit for you: One has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the other. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you were acquainted with him. It is only your opinion that this loss of life was sad or senseless and that this guy "saw no point of living." I believe it MUCH more appropriate for his circle of friends and family to memorialize him in their own way rather than random strangers making wild speculations. I hope his friends and family forgive me for having to mention their loved one in an attempt to quash more speculative gossip and thereby redirect this thread to its original purpose. Dear loved ones, please accept my sincerest apologies for this and my warmest wishes for your emotional recovery and healing. best, kaiya

kaiya 2007-09-01T14:39:18Z bliss http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#31131602-24b0-4a14-b0f6-9d60233dcaa2 2007-09-01T07:43:49Z 2007-09-01T07:43:49Z

what about the guy that lost his life.....I mean.....I do not understand how more important is the early combustion of the man is to a life that saw no point of living....

bliss 2007-09-01T07:43:49Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#54659883-00c7-4439-9d0e-cf2e724f0e2c 2007-09-01T07:22:14Z 2007-09-01T07:22:14Z

Sorry ,Porter -- Are you Porter Tinsley? And if so...okay... Umm... Yeah. Will we agree to disagree then? I just don't think it's funny to deliberately fuck up other people's reality to make a statement. Nor do I think it's genius. That would be kinda like putting a stay on an unconstitutional law preventing same-sex marriage and then putting a stay on the stay.

kaiya 2007-09-01T07:22:14Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#47ac5d65-3b79-4a74-a41d-5c028f6df173 2007-09-01T07:16:55Z 2007-09-01T07:16:55Z

To answer your question, Eddie, No. That is not what I am saying. If you look at my post, that's not what I said at all. Thank you for telling me what I meant. I'm really just a girl and don't know how to say exactly what I want to say without a big strong man to tell me what I really meant. Thank you. Will you take out my garbage for me, too? *bat*bat* Are you saying that it's "not cool" for people to post from the playa itself? And if so, why not? I'm sure the guy might have "given the event a much-needed kick in the ass." I don't know. I've never been. It's just too easy for me to talk myself out of going to a place surrounded by 37,000 posers of the weekend warrior variety. I have succeeded in doing so for the past 9 years. There are probably a total of only 3000 truly free radicals who participate in the event. I don't like those odds. But I have a decent sized group of friends who are there as we speak who number among the aforementioned 3000. I'm pretty sure not one of them paid $200 + to go to an event to witness someone's premeditated destruction of something that is meaningful to them. Lest you misunderstand: his act did not directly hurt or injure me in anyway, or even make me feel bad. Indirectly however, it affects me, because there are a number of people out there whom I absolutely love and adore who were possibly adversely affected by the actions of one fool. Let me rephrase my comment since you apparently missed the point completely and sort of cut and pasted your own meaning onto my words: What this guy did was commit a mean-spirited act in the name of mean-spiritedness. This act probably deeply affected thousands of people. It was not a "protest," nor was it "genius." Unless he was a stowaway, he paid to get in. He fed the very machine that he attempted to destroy with his act. Um...yeah...way to protest. Brilliant. Are you saying that any random person has the right to fuck up other people's lives or enjoyment of something because they think they have "something to say" or a point to prove? Is the Individual more important than the Group? By this logic, those assholes who pulled Reginald Denny out of his truck and beat him nearly to death during the LA riots were just giving .... society a "much needed kick in the ass," right? Ditto for the cops who beat the shit out of Rodney King. Ditto for taggers. I could continue this random list, but I've got other shit to do and hopefully you get what I'm saying. Without rules or structure or a schedule, there is chaos. This society -- and maybe humanity in general is too immature to handle true chaos. I should think that would be evident to a big, strong, smart man like yourself. Or maybe you were not around in 1992 during the LA riots. Or during the rolling blackouts in the late 90's. Or didn't witness the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. In my world, this type of act is NOT okay. End of story. kaiya

kaiya 2007-09-01T07:16:55Z #DC# http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#8b2f8c6b-b0ef-46d7-ad03-26cfe1bb3858 2007-09-01T06:15:33Z 2007-09-01T06:15:33Z

paul addis

#DC# 2007-09-01T06:15:33Z Reecy http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#d809c35c-080d-4c39-9b0e-3a1a588e6260 2007-09-01T00:57:29Z 2007-09-01T00:57:29Z

I know the authorities are legally obliged to withhold his name until the next of kin have been contacted.

Reecy 2007-09-01T00:57:29Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#d592ec2d-e03c-4048-b268-5ca78ae5e610 2007-09-01T00:40:49Z 2007-09-01T00:40:49Z

THANK YOU EDDIE. We still don't have a name for that guy, btw....anyone? anyone?

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-01T00:40:49Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#59938f67-0ce7-4628-a2dd-26e92bafd20f 2007-09-01T00:29:12Z 2007-09-01T00:29:12Z

"people come from all over the world to this thing and spend all kinds of money to go to it" So you are saying because it is where the cool kids are hanging out it should have a schedule and rules now? He gave the event a much needed kick in the ass and burned down the golden arches. Only things that sadden me about this are A) how many people sat and posted about this from the playa itself. B) More people have posted and seem to be more upset about a wooden trademark burning early then the human being who took his life on the playa.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-09-01T00:29:12Z $item.owner.firstName http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#994df4d5-0baf-46e2-8e48-646da2c91947 2007-08-31T23:54:28Z 2007-08-31T23:54:28Z

I hereby disagree completely. Plus, I thought it was funny, and in a way, sort of genius. You can't scream "radical self expression!" and "no rules!" and then cry about somebody breaking the rules that aren't supposed to exist in the first place and be mad that they are expressing themselves radically. Not that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just going off of everything 9,382 people have told me 12,398 times about Burningman.

$item.owner.firstName 2007-08-31T23:54:28Z kaiya http://laburners.tribe.net/thread/c73f49e7-4f2a-4239-bf45-94199039b890#337ef87d-45f7-4f27-b2cd-51fdf29bf273 2007-08-31T22:44:48Z 2007-08-31T22:44:48Z

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/31/burning.man.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/29/burning.man.ap/index.html wth? wow...people come from all over the world to this thing and spend all kinds of money to go to it...I really can't believe the nerve of this guy. So...you destroy the things you disagree with? Is that his form of radical self-expression? To act like a petulant teenager? What an ASS. kaiya

kaiya 2007-08-31T22:44:48Z